Comments on Hot Chicks Dig Smart Men: On Being Offensive

John, I'll let Jim speak for himself, but I ca...

2009-10-02T09:20:56.113-06:00

John, I'll let Jim speak for himself, but I can say formyownself that I have no desire to "move my beliefs into the mainstream." I don't give a good goddamn if people believe, don't believe, howl at the moon or live their lives in celibate isolation in order to be closer to their supreme being. I just want people to mind their own damn business. I don't think that's too much to ask.

And as a non-Christian, I can absolutely say that Christians - as the majority - enjoy an incredible amount of unearned privilege in this country. I understand Jim's anger, because when the majority is crying about how they're persecuted, it really means their unearned privilege is being taken away and they don't like that ONE BIT. So if I get a bit stabby about their hypocritical whining, I think I have good reason.

Ahem. Sorry for the rant. It's not personal, I assure you.

Well, Jim, if you want to move your beliefs into t...

2009-10-02T08:24:53.497-06:00

Well, Jim, if you want to move your beliefs into the mainstream, you don't start by being deliberately offensive to the mainstream.

I'm also offended by the simplistic Christian billboards and the people knocking on my door thinking that my brand of Christianity isn't quite good enough, and if I'm a Christian why don't I want to hear their version of scripture? Because I'm busy and you're a moron is the correct answer.

But no matter what you think my co-religionists have done, I'm going to call you out if you're an asshole about your beliefs. I think you've seen me call out the YEC crowd enough to know I don't give a shit if you're on my "side" if you're being a douchebag.

And there's nothing wrong with someone giving the hairy eyeball to Janiece's magnet. She knows she's going to offend some douchebags, and quite honestly, she's probably better off knowing who they are up front. It's the flip side of the freedom I have to give the hairy eyeball to hipsters in Mao and Che shirts. If they don't like it, fuck 'em. I lived in a fucking Communist country and my family is divided because of fucking Mao. take that Commie shit and shove it up your ass so far that Che can see what you had for lunch. If he had the chance he would have murdered your hipster bourgeois ass, too, shirt or no shirt. I won't take the hairy eyeball away from anyone, because I use it, too.

Those ads at the holidays are very similar, very analagous tho those on the right who lump all Muslims together as terrorists, and I don't see people on the left putting up with that. Rightly so.

Nathan said it better than I could - these people are just out to fuck up everyone's December. Fuck 'em.

John, I'm going to agree with you, then I'...

2009-10-01T23:14:57.571-06:00

John, I'm going to agree with you, then I'm going to disagree with you.

You're right the timing is offensive.

It's just as damned offensive as all those giant billboards that say things like "We need to talk - God." It's just offensive as Christians insisting that non-Christian messages be taking down. It's just as offensive as Christians insisting that this is a Christian nation and solely a Christian nation. It's just as offensive as the fucking holy rollers that think it's ok to come to my house, invade my privacy to push their beliefs on me - and then have the gall to act all offended when I won't listen to it. It's just as offensive as those Christians that insist on turning every single event into an opportunity witness their beliefs to me - and are completely incapable of having a conversation that doesn't involve God in some way or another. It's just as offensive as those Christians who shoot abortion doctors in order to IMPOSE their beliefs on everybody else in the country - yet claim to be defending democracy and freedom and life. It's just as offensive as senior military officers forcing their Evangelical Christian beliefs on Soldier in the war zone or in the Military academies.

And it's not half as offensive as former President George H. W. Bush saying he doesn't think I am a patriot or an American because I don't believe in his God.

And it's just as offensive as some hairy eyeball son of bitch in a parking lot giving somebody else's beliefs the disapproving stare. Who the fuck is this guy to disapprove of anything?

Sorry, but I'm getting damned sick and tired of Christians in this country who demand my respect, who attempt to force my respect, and yet give me no respect in return, who tell me that I deserve no respect, who tell me that I don't belong, who tell me that I'm not an American.

It pisses me off, John, you have no idea how much the hypocrisy of Christians being offended in this country pisses me off.

John, If I gave the impression that I disagreed w...

2009-10-01T18:47:20.011-06:00

John,

If I gave the impression that I disagreed with you, especially on the part you've just re-iterated, I gave the wrong impression. We're really probably in total agreement on this (except I'm sure we could find some divergence if we worked at it. :D)

My mention of quibbles and nuance was just me covering my ass...mostly because it just isn't possible that you could be completely correct. (I kid...I kid.)

Janiece, it's the timing of those ads, not the...

2009-10-01T18:41:27.590-06:00

Janiece, it's the timing of those ads, not the content. Context is everything, well if not everything, a lot of the thing.

Nathan, I do disdain those who wrap their women up in sheets. I know plenty of Muslims who don't. Just like I disdain those Christians who march outside abortion clinics. I know plenty who don't. It's time to join the twenty first fucking century.

There's also the self-hating Western aspect to the ads over the holidays. I suspect those same people who pout the ads up at Easter or Christmas wouldn't go out of their way to antagonize Muslims on Ramadan.

You know me, I'm about as aggressively multi-cultural as they come - but not in a PC way. The more I've lived and worked outside the US, the more I've come to see that there are certain cultures I'm damn glad I wasn't born into, and I have no desire to see the spread of those cultures in my own country.

Folks like John, Vince and Shawn are the Chris...

2009-10-01T13:45:12.554-06:00
Folks like John, Vince and Shawn are the Christians I care about offending...

Couldn't agree more, C.E. That's why I work so hard at offending them all the time.

:D

Janiece, trust me, those dog is watching bi...

2009-10-01T13:13:23.136-06:00
Janiece, trust me, those dog is watching billboards pissed me off and I do believe!

Oh, and this week there is a local high school who's cheerleaders have been putting biblical quotes on the team's entrance banner for Friday night games!! Now, I could, to a point, understand it if this was a Christian school, but it's a public school in a very frothy, well-to-do suburb. Now they've got their panties in a wad because they were told to stop! boohoo.

Give me a break. The advisors should have stopped it long before it got to this! PTSA, School board, local courts and ministers are all involved. Now it's the lead-in for every local newscast.

Excellent Nathan!

2009-10-01T12:13:56.190-06:00
Excellent Nathan!

Nathan, that's exactly where my mind went re: ...

2009-10-01T12:04:25.438-06:00
Nathan, that's exactly where my mind went re: MG's take on Hanukkah. Hee!

Also, mom in northern, I think I love you. Could you be my third mom? (My best friend's mom is my second mom.) It's easy to see where Janiece and Cindi get their coolness.

I love your magnet, Janiece. Frankly, after having all the Christian stuff shoved down my throat by people who obviously don't follow the teachings of Jesus, I don't give a crap if they're offended by it.

Folks like John, Vince and Shawn are the Christians I care about offending, because they get what Jesus was talking about. I'll listen to their feelings and thoughts on Christianity before I'll even consider the feelings of the Pat Robertsons of the world. Which is why your comments re: the coexist sticker brings up some interesting thoughts, John. I still like the basic sentiment of the stickers, but I agree that there are some things we just shouldn't put up with or agree to coexist with. Nathan put it well, but I would also add: I won't go out of my way to coexist with someone whose code of conduct and morality is diametrically opposed to mine (i.e. cruel, inhumane and non-compassionate people).

It's not surprising that I don't share your feelings re: the atheist bus ads (I'm not atheist or agnostic, but I don't follow any organized religion - just a general spiritual kinda girl), but I do see your point of view. However, remind me to never introduce you to my militant atheist friends. ;)

John, I have to say that this:

I think that every time I see the idiots parading outside an abortion clinic protesting instead of setting up an alternative option to help poor single mothers.

...is something I completely agree with. I am pro-choice, which means that I think all women who are in situations where they feel abortion is the only option should be shown what possibilities and resources exist.

Michelle, I was thinking more about customs that ...

2009-10-01T11:30:36.189-06:00
Michelle, I was thinking more about customs that others might get bent out of shape about. I doubt there are enough Jews foregoing shellfish to actually make Lobstermen feel oppressed.

And I'm really not sure
what Mechanicky Girl was talking about!

Wendy, that's exactly the kind of stuff that o...

2009-10-01T10:26:40.375-06:00
Wendy, that's exactly the kind of stuff that offends me as a non-believer. And I expect I'll get over it.

A few years ago we had a series of billboards arou...

2009-10-01T10:10:08.324-06:00
A few years ago we had a series of billboards around the state, most were a stark black with white lettering.

There were from some religious organization proclaiming things like:
God is Watching You
Where will you be on Sunday?
God is Everywhere
God is home on Sunday, are you?

They stayed around way longer than they should have.

If it wasn't so early, I'd come up wit...

2009-10-01T09:45:42.558-06:00
If it wasn't so early, I'd come up with some examples of things I think my fellow Jews should try ditching as well.

What? Seafood and pork not being kosher didn't jump immediately to mind?

Oh yeah. And if I see ONE MORE "Keep the Chri...

2009-10-01T09:06:56.741-06:00
Oh yeah. And if I see ONE MORE "Keep the Christ in Christmas" bumper magnets...
Or maybe a line of "Keep the Han in Hannukkah" magnets?
Just to be servicey and all.

The Darwin fish with legs lives on my car. My res...

2009-10-01T09:06:42.213-06:00
The Darwin fish with legs lives on my car. My response when questioned?

"I think Darwin deserves equal time." :-)

Just a note - this year they have battery-ligh...

2009-10-01T09:04:47.588-06:00
Just a note - this year they have battery-lighted wreaths
This is your public service message for today from M.G.
Carry on.

Nathan, I remember that rant. Some of your best w...

2009-10-01T07:55:57.273-06:00
Nathan, I remember that rant. Some of your best work, IMHO.

I also have no memory of Baby Jeses ever leaping out of the manger and going all Chucky on my ass.

::snirk::

John, I do understand that the Atheist bus ads have raised some eyebrows. Is your issue with them the time of year they were bought (i.e., Easter or Christmas), or do you object on other grounds? What I mean is, if they were purchased and displayed in July, would you still be offended?

The reason I ask is that I think the message of the non-holiday ads ("Don't Believe in God? You're Not Alone" and "There's Probably No God. Now Stop Worrying and Enjoy Your Life") is not offensive. It's simply a way for Atheists and Agnostics to reach out to other like-minded individuals.

However, I thought the "Be Good for Goodness' Sake" ads were a bit insensitive (and kind of dumb), simply because Atheists and Agnostics as a group aren't doing themselves any favors when they deliberately antagonize people of faith.

John, I never thought about the "coexist" bumper stickers in the context you describe. I'm not a big fan of extremism in any context, and you're right - those who need to be told to "coexist" aren't exactly winning any prizes for there incredible tolerance.

Just to clear things up if there's any confusi...

2009-10-01T05:24:15.307-06:00
Just to clear things up if there's any confusion, the post that John's referring to is this one. And to clear things up even further, read Jeri's post that's linked in the post I just linked. That's the one that's more specifically about the display John mentions. (How many links would a linking linker link if a linking linker could link links?)

Oh, sorry, was I clearing things up?

Anyway, with some minor quibbles and nuance, I'm pretty much on board with everything John just said. Tolerance is overrated sometimes. Plenty of ideas deserve aggressive disdain.

(And before anybody gets the idea that I disdain Muslims because they wrap their women up in head-to-toe quilts in 90 degree heat...I don't. But I do think they might want to consider rethinking some of their traditions. If it wasn't so early, I'd come up with some examples of things I think my fellow Jews should try ditching as well.)

I guess the upshot is that I'm not going to go out of my way to coexist with anyone whose most basic ethos about everything is that I'm wrong about everything and I'm going to suffer for my error.

Darwin fish are not a slap in the face to Christia...

2009-10-01T01:35:52.070-06:00
Darwin fish are not a slap in the face to Christians. Some of us even believe in evolution.

Buying a pro-atheist ad to put on public buses at Christmas or Easter is a slap in the face. That display Nathan wrote about last year is a slap in the face. Expressing your own beliefs on your own car without ridicule or name-calling is not a slap in the face.

The Coexist bumper sticker gets under my skin a little bit because I'm aggressively un-interested in coexisting with theocrats, of either the ultra-orthodox Christian or Muslim variety (and I'm not terribly interested in coexisting with bigamous Latter Day Saints, either).

Some things I just don't accept, and wish stamped out from human consciousness. I can't say I want my daughter coexisting in the world with people who wrap their women up in sheets, and I think that very thought every time I pass an orthodox Muslim in the West parading around in the summer heat in shorts and a t-shirt while his wife shuffles along in a black burqua. I think that every time I see the idiots parading outside an abortion clinic protesting instead of setting up an alternative option to help poor single mothers. And I think that every time I see a story about those idiots out in Utah.

You might say that the people who sport that bumper sticker mean that moderates of all stripes should coexist. But we already do. I work in an office where Muslims from Turkey and Pakistan work happily with Hindus, semi-Orthodox Jews and Christians such as myself.

So who is that bumper sticker aimed at? Who doesn't coexist already? As far as I can see, it's the kind of people to whom "coexist" means admitting that their particular belief system is objectively superior and should be written into the laws of the land while everyone else sucks it up in the name of multi-culturalism. The kind of people who become cab drivers who won't transport a person who bought a bottle of liquor at the duty free. The kind of people who insist that abortion be illegal for everyone because it offends their middle class religious sensibilities.

That bumper sticker always smacks of appeasement to me.

Nathan, save me a seat. And I'm not ...

2009-09-30T20:26:08.408-06:00
Nathan, save me a seat. And I'm not going to fuck the guy with the hairy eyeball.

Ew.

I remember a whole long discussion somewhere else ...

2009-09-30T20:09:53.151-06:00
I remember a whole long discussion somewhere else about whether or not "Darwin Fish" were a slap in the face to Christians...and I still just don't see it.

There's a wide gap between having a sticker that says "I believe in Evolution (which a whole lot of Christians would agree with), and having one that says "You are wrong and you are an idiot because you believe things I don't". (And I've seen plenty of stickers that said I'd burn in Hell forever if I don't accept Jesus into my life.) I have no difficulty figuring out which one is actually confrontational.

Fuck the guy with the hairy eyeball.

I also think that the plural of house should be &q...

2009-09-30T19:37:09.148-06:00
I also think that the plural of house should be "hice", but I'm clearly in the minority there and don't want to look like a doofus. :D

John, I just love that you consider the plural of ...

2009-09-30T16:19:33.789-06:00
John, I just love that you consider the plural of "doofus" to be "doofi."

It maketh me to giggle, and I tend to be believe that if there is a god, he's TOTALLY into laughter.

You know what chaps my ass. People with the 23 Chr...

2009-09-30T14:35:25.497-06:00
You know what chaps my ass. People with the 23 Christian bumper stickers who drive like crap and ignore the rules of the road. Part of loving thy neighbor is not inducing homicidal rage in him or her when you drive.

Makes the rest of us look like doofi.

Steve, I'm quite sure I've been on their &...

2009-09-30T13:13:20.122-06:00
Steve, I'm quite sure I've been on their "list" for some time.

Comments on Hot Chicks Dig Smart Men: On Being Offensive

John, I'll let Jim speak for himself, but I ca...

Well, Jim, if you want to move your beliefs into t...

John, I'm going to agree with you, then I'...

John, If I gave the impression that I disagreed w...

Janiece, it's the timing of those ads, not the...

Folks like John, Vince and Shawn are the Chris...

Janiece, trust me, those dog is watching bi...

Excellent Nathan!

Nathan, that's exactly where my mind went re: ...

Michelle, I was thinking more about customs that ...

Wendy, that's exactly the kind of stuff that o...

A few years ago we had a series of billboards arou...

If it wasn't so early, I'd come up wit...

Oh yeah. And if I see ONE MORE "Keep the Chri...

The Darwin fish with legs lives on my car. My res...

Just a note - this year they have battery-ligh...

Nathan, I remember that rant. Some of your best w...

Just to clear things up if there's any confusi...

Darwin fish are not a slap in the face to Christia...

Nathan, save me a seat. And I'm not ...

I remember a whole long discussion somewhere else ...

I also think that the plural of house should be &q...

John, I just love that you consider the plural of ...

You know what chaps my ass. People with the 23 Chr...

Steve, I'm quite sure I've been on their &...