tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post3946827168353220119..comments2024-01-27T04:41:17.522-07:00Comments on Hot Chicks Dig Smart Men: Feminism and Moral RelativismJaniecehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06223994862015217811noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-11668955491081748552010-08-13T20:26:35.011-06:002010-08-13T20:26:35.011-06:00Tom, your comments are well taken, but to me, the ...Tom, your comments are well taken, but to me, the principles of the "prime directive" would apply to alien civilizations - not human ones. As noted earlier in this thread, I think it's fair to posit that Human Rights should apply to ALL humans, foreign culture or no.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-13209286061591181052010-08-13T09:46:26.051-06:002010-08-13T09:46:26.051-06:00Janiece, while reading this I couldn't help bu...Janiece, while reading this I couldn't help but start thinking about all this in a "First Contact/Prime Directive" way. Aside from the inbuilt "assumption of superiority", which isn't where I want to go, what else can we use?<br /><br />How should we treat the members of an alien society which seems to treat it members "wrongly"? How much should we meddle in such a society until we understand it thoroughly. What if it was a matriarchal sociaty that treated it's male members badly.<br /><br />How much of "our" technology, which could include our ideas of individual freedom and societal responsibility, should we transfer to an alien society that doesn't have those kinds of ideas. The Prime Directive says none. Don't meddle, don't transfer technology.<br /><br />I could see "lack of religion" as a technology that would be transferable in some circumstances, and that could give one part of an alien society an advantage. Do we have the right to mess with another society's religion?<br /><br />You're causing me to think about things in new ways. Stop it!Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273212686600552771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-47103049833139336532010-08-10T17:49:44.258-06:002010-08-10T17:49:44.258-06:00Vagabond, your points are why I specified "tr...Vagabond, your points are why I specified "traditional tribal" societies in my remarks. I just didn't have time to detail them all due to my per-feshion-al training this week. <br /><br />Thanks for point them out!Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-51074438541576864042010-08-10T16:05:49.994-06:002010-08-10T16:05:49.994-06:00Keep in mind, Janiece, the most of the abhorrent p...Keep in mind, Janiece, the most of the abhorrent practices one hears of are not mandated in the Quran, they are rather mandated by the tribal culture. The Quran, and by extension, Islam, does not encourage mutilation, prohibit being active in the workplace, deny inheritance or encourage (or even mention) honor killings. These practices are cultural adjuncts to a religious framework, much the same as Christians have justified the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition (No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! . . . oops, sorry), witch burnings and pogroms. Those were all cultural add-ons that were never mandated or even suggested by scriptural sources.<br /><br />In other words, the practitioners of these acts are barbarians who, despite their loud preaching, are not supported in their actions by the core beliefs of their religion. Sort of like middle eastern Fred Phelps. There are many examples of liberalized Muslim societies that don't mess around with barbarism and hate.<br /><br />bredi - a doughy, yeasty protector of the republic and master of the force.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09578918682897536518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-79468680506391856752010-08-10T15:30:44.682-06:002010-08-10T15:30:44.682-06:00*TONG**TONG*Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-23378068279923186372010-08-10T14:43:38.360-06:002010-08-10T14:43:38.360-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-18206343403252937242010-08-10T13:05:45.397-06:002010-08-10T13:05:45.397-06:00Well, dammit, it's awfully hard to say somethi...Well, dammit, it's awfully hard to say something profound and enlightening when everybody has already covered it.<br /><br />What all'y'all said.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-16876387934432928922010-08-10T12:54:44.911-06:002010-08-10T12:54:44.911-06:00Don't be silly, Janiece. We women are made of ...Don't be silly, Janiece. We women are made of sand. We don't have feelings. XD<br /><br /><br />Yeah, the thing with the veil is on my mind because of it getting banned in France. I can totally understand making it a security issue, but there's just something cringe-inducing about framing a government telling women what they're allowed to wear as "freeing them from oppression." Or something. I guess it's easier to go after a symbol than attack the root cause, which is (omg!) women being held back from exercising their full human rights.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09945237846384318979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-34534789626252550422010-08-10T11:37:45.068-06:002010-08-10T11:37:45.068-06:00Rachael, you make a very good point about human ri...Rachael, you make a very good point about human rights trumping cultural identity.<br /><br />But then, I have a irrational ladybrain, so <em>of course</em> I think womenfolk are deserving of human rights.<br /><br />Which, incidently, includes the right to wear a veil if I so choose, provided it doesn't result in a safety or security issue (such as in airports). The fact that I would never, ever so choose is kind of beside the point, IMO. Like with feminism is general, it's not my job to make those decisions for other self-aware, educated women.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-44263595756081058922010-08-10T10:56:09.154-06:002010-08-10T10:56:09.154-06:00I think if we look at it ethically, basic human ri...I think if we look at it ethically, basic human rights should always, always trump cultural identity. And if you agree with that, it really clears up most of the conflicts. If women are people (and we are) and deserve basic human rights (which we do) and obtain these rights (which we damnwell should) then I have a feeling a lot of the more cringe inducing misogynist cultural stuff would dry up and blow away.<br /><br />The area I'm actually finding most interesting in this intersection are things like the veil, where there isn't immediate harm to the women involved.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09945237846384318979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-63915747790661181682010-08-10T09:12:24.114-06:002010-08-10T09:12:24.114-06:00Steve, I agree. It's one of the reasons I do a...Steve, I agree. It's one of the reasons I do a lot of micro-lending to women via Kiva.<br /><br />The other telling thing (I believe) is education. In societies where girls are routinely educated, they tend to do better. In part because of the economic security that comes from education, but also because education tends to open the mind to new ideas.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-90598741336963198572010-08-10T09:07:28.464-06:002010-08-10T09:07:28.464-06:00The best cure is economic independence. In those s...The best cure is economic independence. In those societies that have women gaining in economic stance, birth rates are dropping and so are draconian restrictions and requirements on those women. It's not a quick fix, but then cultural change never is. It sucks that it goes too slow.Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.com