tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post8962748761845032154..comments2024-03-19T03:18:54.509-06:00Comments on Hot Chicks Dig Smart Men: Humbug and HypocrisyJaniecehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06223994862015217811noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-31828479377492054972008-11-18T12:44:00.000-07:002008-11-18T12:44:00.000-07:00What I think is hilarious is that most of the earl...What I think is hilarious is that most of the early religious separatist cults in the US banned celebration of Christmas (Puritans, Zoarites, etc). The Puritans did so because they felt the holiday was too pagan. Strangely enough (to our modern sense) they banned Halloween as to Catholic.<BR/><BR/>Give me that Zarathustra just like we use-ta. Give me that ol' time religion.Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-6739251426320646332008-11-14T07:49:00.000-07:002008-11-14T07:49:00.000-07:00You said it, Jeri. Christmas isn't what makes me ...You said it, Jeri. Christmas isn't what makes me stabby - it's the hypocrites.<BR/><BR/>Wendy, you make me laugh.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-1170084234406942942008-11-13T23:17:00.000-07:002008-11-13T23:17:00.000-07:00First - Let me be the first to wish you Merry Chri...First - <BR/>Let me be the first to wish you Merry Christmas this year! <BR/><BR/>There, I said it. That's probably as close to a religious greeting as you'll get out of me, being of the faith but not immersed in the faith for many years now. <BR/><BR/>I'm afraid though that for many, if not most, the religion went out of Christmas many years ago. Especially if you're in the world of retail, they stole the true meaning of Christmas many years ago.<BR/><BR/>Here's my twist on this season. You see I was so looking forward to the election ads being over and then on Nov 5th we got...yes, you guessed it, inundated with Christmas ADS!!! <BR/><BR/>Now, I know of which I speak as I spent nearly 20 years slogging away in the retail world. I am numb to Christmas tree displays going up the day after the Halloween costumes. But the heavy duty ad campaigns held off, for the most part, until the week or so before Thanksgiving, priming the pump for "Black Friday", the day which most retailers finally break even (get into the black) for the year. <BR/><BR/>Now the stores like K-Mart, that brought back that old staple of frugality - the lay-a-way plan - did need to promote the service. <BR/><BR/>But the rest of them - well, you want to know the real depth of the economic mess? The retailers, who worship the almighty dollar, are panicing en masse this year, and it will get ugly. The ones that are still in business, that is. <BR/><BR/>Circuit City is closing ALL of their Georgia stores, and many others by the end of the year. Linens & Things is going out of business and closing all their stores. And K-mart is closing their oldest store here, as well as another round of borderline performers thoughout the country. That's just the ones I can think of this late at night. And a lot of the small ma & pa stores will shut down as well. <BR/><BR/>In the long run, We, the oh-so broke consumers, may actually benefit from all this in the end. Why, you ask? This past Sunday paper looked like the Thanksgiving paper with all the ad slicks stuffed into it! Why? Because in a desperate effort to bring more people into the stores to spend what little money they have, the stores will lower prices even more. The retail gods will almost get their win in the end.<BR/><BR/>(steps off soapbox, thanks audience for listening, goes to bed making plans to dust off grandmother's yummy fruitcake recipe and finish some quilty-type gifts for some)<BR/><BR/>Good night. <BR/>WendyB_09WendyB_09https://www.blogger.com/profile/03788918629240949526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-91127849579601044362008-11-13T21:05:00.000-07:002008-11-13T21:05:00.000-07:00Thanks for sharing that, Janiece.How do you thing ...Thanks for sharing that, Janiece.<BR/><BR/>How do you thing the grand poo-bahs would have reacted if the ads were about, say, taking the Xenu out of Scientology's top holiday? Or a goddess out of a Hindu holiday? A blip. A nonevent. A shrug. <BR/><BR/>Only when it's their precious and untouchable belief system that's in question is it suddenly a A Big Deal.<BR/><BR/>Situational ethics?Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02473415569376925543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-86033728266864388102008-11-13T14:59:00.001-07:002008-11-13T14:59:00.001-07:00Merry Mythmas!Merry Mythmas!Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-58843392843570433202008-11-13T14:59:00.000-07:002008-11-13T14:59:00.000-07:00Michelle: yes, that's what I meant when I shorthan...Michelle: yes, that's what I meant when I shorthanded it to "secular and cultural heritage." Basically, and to keep it simple, displaying the Ten Commandments as an example of ancient law that influenced Anglo-American law is legally okey-dokey, but displaying the Ten Commandments as representing a message endorsed by the State is veddy, veddy naughty.<BR/><BR/>So what the town of Pleasant Grove is doing is basically screwing themselves. They're presently arguing, basically, that they can discriminate between religious displays because they have a First Amendment right to publish a message--which would be a violation of separation of church and state.<BR/><BR/>If they were trying to argue that the Ten Commandments display represented an example of ancient law and the display was secular and nondenominational, they'd be on stronger legal ground, but their argument for discriminating against the Summumians would be <I>weaker</I> (n.b. I didn't say they'd lose, just that it's a weaker case for them).<BR/><BR/>Of course, if the town wins this case, they'll be sued by, oh, just about everyone for violating the Separaration Clause. And when they <I>then</I> make the "secular display" argument, of course they'll have their current argument thrown back in their face and they'll lose. Bye-bye, monument.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-89246418779765638992008-11-13T14:50:00.000-07:002008-11-13T14:50:00.000-07:00December 25 is believed to be the "birthday" of th...December 25 is believed to be the "birthday" of the ancient Roman Sun god Mithra or Saturn, and Constantine changed the celebration to Christmas to appease all of the Roman Christians.<BR/><BR/>Maybe someone should point this out to Fundies and tell them to put the Mithra back in Mithmas, or whatever, and leave Christ out of it.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02458727475454361013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-57141160604067512372008-11-13T14:02:00.000-07:002008-11-13T14:02:00.000-07:00Eric,What about "religious" displays that are part...Eric,<BR/><BR/>What about "religious" displays that are part of a different message.<BR/><BR/>IIRC, doesn't the SC have giant murals of law from way back in history, including the ten commandments?<BR/><BR/>I thought the divider was whether the display was historical or religious? (I phrased that badly. Sue me.)Random Michelle Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817444379694818074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-85016419584762893752008-11-13T12:05:00.001-07:002008-11-13T12:05:00.001-07:00::I amuse the shit out of me::::I amuse the shit out of me::Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648438549121320566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-24098049352297950882008-11-13T12:05:00.000-07:002008-11-13T12:05:00.000-07:00The thing that amazes me is that you folks need an...The thing that amazes me is that you folks need an excuse to get stabby.<BR/><BR/>Stabby is my default position.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648438549121320566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-18078401122021013242008-11-13T11:55:00.000-07:002008-11-13T11:55:00.000-07:00Vince, what bugs me about these folks is that in t...Vince, what bugs me about these folks is that in their minds, "Freedom of Religion" only applies if you choose the <EM>correct</EM> religion, i.e., <EM>theirs</EM>. <BR/><BR/>I have many friends who are people of faith, and not one of them thinks that the establishment clause doesn't apply to those who don't believe as they do.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-57245477843166608352008-11-13T11:51:00.000-07:002008-11-13T11:51:00.000-07:00And the "get over it" will not be read by the peop...And the "get over it" will not be read by the people it's aimed at. But it had to be said.vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955307244053931069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-27359422322772190172008-11-13T11:47:00.000-07:002008-11-13T11:47:00.000-07:00I like what John said. And hey, I find plenty of a...I like what John said. And hey, I find plenty of ads offensive for reasons that have nothing to do with my faith. So what? I just don't read/don't watch them.<BR/><BR/>The American Humanist Association has just as much right to run that ad as a religious group has a right to run an ad.<BR/><BR/>Seesh. Get over it. I'll celebrate Christmas as I like (which will be part secular, part Christian), you celebrate as you like. It's called freedom of religion. These people should be grateful they have it. Lots of people in this world don't.vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955307244053931069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-8887842001299521212008-11-13T11:03:00.000-07:002008-11-13T11:03:00.000-07:00Eric, no, I'm not surprised. But I'm still going ...Eric, no, I'm not surprised. <BR/><BR/>But I'm still going to point and laugh (or point and roll my eyes) when they make their hypocrisy so damn <EM>obvious.</EM>Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-36420253394096141692008-11-13T11:00:00.000-07:002008-11-13T11:00:00.000-07:00I totally agree with John, though I would hesitate...I totally agree with John, though I would hesitate putting Christmas in April for two reasons:<BR/><BR/>1) There is a strong case to be made that Jesus was most likely born in <A HREF="http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm" REL="nofollow">September or October</A> and...<BR/><BR/>2) April is my birth month and I will not have it sullied by fundamentalist hypocrites.<BR/><BR/>The things that make John, Janiece and Eric all stabby? Make me stabby too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-66903061406213724792008-11-13T10:39:00.000-07:002008-11-13T10:39:00.000-07:00Hypocrisy, Janiece? You mean you haven't been fol...Hypocrisy, Janiece? You mean you haven't been following <A HREF="http://www.slate.com/id/2204465" REL="nofollow">this week's big SCOTUS case, <I>Summum v. Pleasant Grove</I></A>?<BR/><BR/>Allow me to summarize: Summum, a weird, goofy cult, attempted to donate a religious statute to the town of Pleasant Grove, to go alongside a monument to the Ten Commandments that was put up in the park fifty years ago by a religious group trying to take advantage of the release of the movie, <I>The Ten Commandments</I>. Pleasant Grove balked, saying that putting up such a monument would violate the town's First Amendment rights by forcing the town to advocate a religious view it doesn't agree with.<BR/><BR/>Now, here's the funny part, if you didn't notice it in the previous paragraph (and yes, it's a fair paraphrasing of Pleasant Grove's position, as explained by a spokeperson on NPR earlier this week): Pleasant Grove can <I>only</I> display the Ten Commandments in the first place if it's part of a "secular" display of cultural or civic heritage. That is, they cannot display the Ten Commandments as a message they endorse, <I>because that violates the separation of church and state</I>.<BR/><BR/>Which means, basically, if they win they lose. And if they lose they lose. And they don't seem to get this. Because the <I>truth</I> is that their Ten Commandments display is a religious statement of faith by the town unless they're being sued by the ACLU or a secular humanist group, at which point the monument magically becomes a secular display of the role the Ten Commandments played in the foundation of blah blah blah.<BR/><BR/>Were you saying something about hypocrisy? I mean, you're not surprised, are you?<BR/><BR/>I actually agree with John about the hardliners--they may be tightasses, but at least they're not <I>jack</I>asses, and I can sort of respect that. But the people we're talking about--screw 'em.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-16094818356238638032008-11-13T10:08:00.000-07:002008-11-13T10:08:00.000-07:00John, I tend to agree. I guess I just don't under...John, I tend to agree. <BR/><BR/>I guess I just don't understand why these folks are so <EM>offended</EM> by non-Christians celebrating the holiday in a non-Christian way. Since they stole the winter solstice holiday in the first place, it seems more than a little hypocritical to pitch a fit <EM>now.</EM><BR/><BR/>Of course, these are also the same people who insist, against all logic and policy, that the U.S. is a "Christian Nation."<BR/><BR/>Now <EM>that</EM> makes me stabby.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112925820320944611.post-77834851297205252652008-11-13T09:48:00.000-07:002008-11-13T09:48:00.000-07:00If you see Christmas as a solely religious holiday...If you see Christmas as a solely religious holiday - and a Christian one at that - then tear dwon the images of Santa, take down the damn tree, get rid of the lights, and celebrate it in April. Oh yeah, and only give presents of perfume, spices or precious metals.<BR/><BR/>Now I do know people who won't have a tree and don't let their kids do anything at Halloween, because they think those are non-Christian additions to the tradition of the liturgical calendar. And they're right. I think if you stuck a lump of coal in their ass, you'd get a diamond in a couple of minutes, but at least they're logically consistent.<BR/><BR/>The people who want all the accoutrements, and then want to make it all about Christian identity make me all stabby.John the Scientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03467337009577733553noreply@blogger.com