I ♥ The First Amendment

Saturday, October 9, 2010
You know, with the possible exception of those who have had loved ones' funerals protested by the hateful, horrifying members of the Westboro Baptist Church, I can't really think of anyone who hates those motherfuckers more than me. Seriously - I would consider a short jail term if it meant that I could punch Fred Phelps in the throat. Their behavior as it relates to the Armed Forces simply makes me APOPLECTIC WITH RAGE, although I try to keep it under control so that I don't sink to their level.

And yet, and yet...

As much as I hate them, and as much as I wish they would just crawl back under the medieval rock they came from, and as much as I would thoroughly enjoy doing violence upon their person, I strongly believe they should win their Supreme Court case against Mr. Snyder, who sued them for protesting the funeral of his fallen son Matthew.

That's not to say that Mr. Snyder wouldn't be perfectly justified from a moral and ethical point of view in punching Phelps and his merry band of bigots in their throat hisownself. In fact, I'd be more than happy to hold the man's coat, and then provide moral and financial support for his legal fees. My heart aches for his loss, and I understand how fundamentally offensive WBC's behavior was during the ceremony that buried his son. But compromising the First Amendment - one of the very ideas his son swore to uphold - to shut these lunatics up simply isn't the answer.

It's true that I hate the WBC, and everything they stand for. With the heat of a thousand burning suns, and a rage that burns my blood. But I love the Constitution more.

4 comments:

Jim Wright said...

To be honest, I remain perpetually surprised that veterans have not killed these motherfuckers - or at least pounded them into a bloody pulp. And should that happen, I will send money and moral support to the vets' defense fund. As I said elsewhere, I doubt that I could control myself in their presence. I'm fairly sure that as crippled as I am these days, I could still move fast enough to crush Phelps' throat before the cops could taze me down.

HOWEVER, with that said, I agree with you, Janiece, up to a point. I think a Constitutional compromise can be reached that allows WBC to maintain their 1st Amendment rights, but ALSO ensures the right of vets and their families freedom from it. The Constitution gives WBC the right to speak, but it also gives me the right not to have to listen to their shit.

Megan said...

Agreed. If you say "I believe in freedom of speech, but...", you don't really believe in freedom of speech.

SEE ALSO: "I'm not racist, but..."

nzforme said...

Well, the First Amendment protection of speech has limits -- it doesn't protect all speech everywhere. Time and again, courts have upheld reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions.

Now, the article you linked to has Phelps's lawyer (a junior Phelps) saying that the picketers stood in a place designated by a priest and by the police, over a thousand feet from the funeral, and could not actually be seen or heard by the mourners. (The theory appears to be that Snyder wouldn't have even KNOWN these assholes were out there had the media not covered the protest.) Although the story doesn't explicity say it, Snyder appears to take a different position -- that it violated the sanctity of the funeral and interfered with his right to participate in the funeral.

Looks like a factual dispute here, and a key one. From where I'm sitting, you can protect their First Amendment right to speak, while imposing reasonable time, place and manner restrictions that would keep them from intruding on the funeral.

Steve Buchheit said...

Yes to all of the above. However, I believe Mr. Snyder's case isn't a criminal one (which would be a direct violation of the 1st Amendment), but a civil one (for harm caused). And this comes under the question of if the Phelps cried "Fire" in a crowded theater.

With that, I think he has a case. However, the circumstances of the event (from what I gather on the news), leaves me a little skeptical of Mr. Snyder (that he really didn't see or hear these idiots during the funeral, thank you Rolling Thunder, but it was afterwards). However, as I understand the case, the Phelps did call him out directly on their website. Which then brings us back to him having standing.

I'd be interested to hear Eric's take on this, but for right now I don't see this as a 1st Amendment case, but a defamation and willful intent to cause harm case. In that view, as long as Mr. Synder can show harm, I think he has the case.