Ask Hot Chicks Dig Smart Men, Edition the Eleventh

Monday, July 11, 2011
Today's Question comes from LucyinDisguise, who asks,
An Eric inspired question (not for me so much, but for my grandson):

What is the Marine recruiter NOT telling my grandson that is swaying his decision away from the Navy?

And, perhaps more important, could you give your five top reasons why he should choose the Navy over the Marines?

(11 months to final commitment)

I have given him my best shot at why the Marines would not be a good fit, but I am clearly biased (mostly based on my interaction with Marines through my Interservice Honor Guard duties* when I was in the Air Force - not actual day to day exposure).
LucyinDisguise, this is a difficult question to answer, primarily because I don't know your Grandson, and I'm unsure why the Navy might be a better fit for him rather than the Marine Corps. But I'll share my thoughts, and you can take away what you will. Please note that these are my impressions only - I never served in the Marines, and so my thoughts are incomplete, at best.

I would have to say that the differences between the Navy and Marine Corps fall into several categories: mission, culture, and organization. The differences in mission are available all over the Internet, so I'll concentrate on culture and organization. Bear in mind, however, that I don't consider the Navy to be "better" than the Corps - they're just very, very different, in all aspects of their service.

The culture of the Navy and the culture of the Marine Corps are very different animals. The modern Navy is a technological wonder - almost every rate requires extensive technical training, and hundreds of hours of on-the-job training to achieve levels of proficiency that allow the sailors to fight effectively. Each mission segment is somewhat isolated, and only in rare cases do sailors who specialize in, say, Surface Warfare, learn and become proficient in Construction Battalion (SeaBees) operations. Each mission is carried out at the lower ranks without much regard for the other groups. People tend to identify themselves in terms of their community (such as Submarines, or Aviation) rather than as "Sailors" outside their communities.

While the Marine Corps is also specializing more and more, the bottom line for Marines is that they are, first and foremost, Marines. Whether they work in military intelligence, aviation, or Marine Expeditionary Forces, they're all Marines, and they wouldn't dream of identifying themselves as "MI" rather than as "Marines" to someone not of their community. As a service, the Marine Corps is the smallest, the most disciplined, and in their minds, the most exclusive of the branches of the U.S. Armed Forces. And that attitude is reflected in their culture. To them, all that matters is whether or not you're a good Marine.

There are advantages and disadvantages to the different cultural norms, of course. In the Navy, it's sometimes possible to live a life that does not wholly and completely revolve around the Navy, and to maintain an identity that isn't, at its core, being a sailor. That's not true for the Marine Corps. Marines are always Marines, no matter what, and no matter how long they've been out. If you're the kind of person who requires a certain amount of autonomy, of individualism, then the Corps is not going to be a comfortable home for you. However, if you're the kind of person who thrives and blossoms in an environment where there's lots of structure, where your inclusion in the fraternal cohort is the only thing that matters, then the Marines might suit.

One area where all the Armed Forces need work, but the Marine Corps ESPECIALLY needs work, is in the area of gender equality. Of all the services, the Corps is the most dependent on a warrior culture whose cornerstone is a macho, tough guy ethos. It's the reason they're so tight in their brotherhood, so inflexible in their commitment to never leave a Marine behind. I don't know how they can keep the latter without shitcanning the former, but I do know that the Corps is not necessarily a good career choice if you're a woman.

Organizationally, the Marines are also the leanest of the services. The ranks of their support personnel is the smallest on a per capita basis compared to the other services. This allows them to maintain their exclusivity, and their identify as, first and foremost, a fighting force. One of the reasons for this is that they depend on the Navy in large part for some of this support (including their military academy).

There are career choices that allow young service members to be a part of the Marines without actually joining them. The most obvious is that of Navy Hospital Corpsman. The Marines don't have corpsman of their own - they use the Navy's, and corpsmen who are accepted into that program, live, work and fight alongside the Marine units they're assigned to. The Navy SeaBees are also a subculture that more closely resemble the Marine experience than a generic sailor's.

LucyinDisguise, I guess the bottom line is, what does your Grandson hope to achieve by joining the service? Technical training? A sense of accomplishment? Fulfilling a desire to serve?  College benefits? A career? What kind of person is he, and in what environment will he thrive? The answer to those questions will determine what service (if any) is right for him. I suspect the Marine recruiter is downplaying your Grandson's chances of being deployed into a war zone, which (if true), is just bullshit. If your Grandson joins the Marines, it's extremely likely that he'll end up in Iraq, Afghanistan, or some other shithole, trying hard not to get his ass shot off by some insurgent. That's a risk your Grandson has to be willing to accept before he signs up. On the other hand, if he chooses the Navy, it's extremely likely he'll end up on 6-9 month deployments on a Navy warship, living cheek to jowl with 200-5,000 of his closest friends. The military is not an easy life - in any context - and going in with your eyes open is best for everyone.

I know I have a number of former sailors and Marines that visit this space - I hope they'll throw their two cents in, as well. Thanks for your question, LucyinDisguise.

6 comments:

Nathan said...

I'm probably the least informed on military matters of anybody reading this, and this doesn't contradict anything you've said here, but I'm assuming you've seen this.

Janiece said...

Nathan, all the services are making progress, and I'm glad to see this.

Dana Teel said...

I agree that the key to getting the right answer is to determine what do you want to achieve? I spent 20 years in the Navy, I've served on amphibous ships with marines and have a great deal of respect for them, but I can't claim to know their service well. I'd say if he's prone to sea sickness then the Navy probably isn't for him. Other than that I concur with Janiece.

LucyInDisguise said...

As a Professional Driver, I seldom get to catch up until the week end. This very long week was no exception.

I first and foremost would like to say one thing:

Thank you.

Your thoughts from "outside the circle" gave me a starting point for what I'm hoping was a productive conversation. As a wrestler (took 3rd in the state of Nevada this past school year) he's all so very much into the physical macho thing. He was all so very cool with the first part of your post. Then, he got to the crux of my issue (I have shown him movies of actual combat footage shot in such places a Guadalcanal and Okinawa, but he just couldn't seem to grasp the idea that those were actual Marines being cut to pieces on those beaches).

Ty (my grandson) hung on that paragraph which contains that word that he understood more than any other: bullshit.

Coming from outside, it's no longer just the silly old man being, uh, whimpy ... together with some of Jim's classic posts about Duty and Honor (particularly Pearl Harbor), he has at last become very introspective about his decision - which was my ultimate goal. He was flying on poor a poor flight plan, and making decisions based on, uh, less than completely true information.

Again, Thank You.

Lucy

Janiece said...

LucyInDisguise, you're very welcome. I would never encourage someone with a desire to serve not to do so, but an informed decision is crucial.

Good luck to Ty, and please let us know what he decides to do.

LucyInDisguise said...

It is 8:18 AM on a Sunday morning ... Ty is up, and quietly surfing the 'net.

17 yr old boys are never up at 8:18 AM on a Sunday morning to do anything except pee.

There is yet, I believe, hope for this boy - errr - Young Man.

Lucy